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>> Pat Ryan: Our mission

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to the International Space
Station is not the only thing

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that NASA is doing of course.

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In fact, we're now
less than one week away

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from the next Mars landing.

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NASA's Mars Science Laboratory
with the rover Curiosity is due

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to land on Mars early

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in the morning next
Monday August the 6th.

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You're going to be seeing more
coverage of the MSL mission

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on NASA Television as we
get closer to landing.

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That'll include features from
the Jet Propulsion Laboratory

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in California, which manages
the mission, as well as here

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at the Johnson Space
Center in Houston,

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where some of the members

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of the Mars Science Laboratory
team are located and one

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of them is here with
us today to talk

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about the goals of that mission.

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Dr. Doug Archer is a fellow in
NASA's post doctoral program

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and a member of the Sample
Analysis at Mars Science Team.

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Doug let's tell me first

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of all how long have you
been a part of the SAM team?

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>> Dr. Doug Archer: Well I've
been a part of the SAM team

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for a little bit over two
years now and I got involved

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by working with some Mars
scientists here at JSC

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and I knew that they were
involved in MSL and came

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out here to JSC to work with
them and to work on MSL.

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>> Pat: This isn't even
your first trip to Mars;

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I think that's pretty cool.

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You were part of a previous
landing on Mars team right?

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah I had the
amazing experience to work

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as a science team member on the
2008 Phoenix Mars Scout Mission

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that landed on the northern
plains of Mars a few years ago

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and I was able to help
participate in the buildup

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to the mission and then landed
ops and things like looking

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at sample acquisition and how
to get a sample and where to dig

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for a sample and we're actually
still involved here at JSC

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and analyzing some of the
data that we're returned

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by the [inaudible]
instrument on Phoenix,

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which as mass spectrometer that
has some capabilities similar

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to that of the SAM
instrument on MSL.

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>> Pat: Is landing on Mars
all we might imagine it to be?

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>> Dr. Archer: I've got
to say it's probably one

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of the most exciting
thing that's ever happened

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to me in my life.

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It's a nerve raking few
minutes but incredibly exciting.

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>> Pat: The MSL mission
has got some big goals.

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Can you summarize it for us?

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What is MSL intending
to find or to learn?

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah so in
one word its habitability.

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MSL is trying to analyze and
investigate the habitability

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of our landing site and when I
say habitability I'm not talking

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about looking for life per
say, really it's looking

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for an environment where
life could survive,

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where life could be ok.

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Either at some point in the
past on Mars or maybe up even

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to today but again it's
looking for habitability,

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not for life itself and it
does that by using its suite

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of ten instruments which look
at things like the geology,

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the geochemistry, the radiation
environment and a whole host

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of other factors which
are really interesting in

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and of themselves but together
they can paint a really complete

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picture of if this environment
is somewhere where life

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as we know it could
have survived

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in the past or possibly today.

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>> Pat: That would
lead one to think

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that there's something
special about the landing site

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that you've chosen, that you
think there's something there

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that you need to go see.

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah
so we're landing

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in a place called Gale
Crater but the first criteria

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for any landing site
is it has to be safe,

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that's the number one priority
because it's really difficult

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to do science on the surface of
Mars if you don't land safely

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so that's your number
one priority

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but it's also very interesting
from a scientific perspective.

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Again we're landing at the
bottom of this large crater,

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Gale Crater and when we land
we think we might be on top

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of some material that's been
moved down from the crater walls

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and so even though we don't
really have the intention

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to go see the crater walls
themselves cause they're

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so far away, we might get
a little glimpse of what's

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in them just because they're
going to be there where we land.

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>> Pat: How big a crater
are we talking about it?

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>> Dr. Archer: Its about
150 km or 110 or 120 miles

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across so this is a very
large impact crater and then

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after we land as we
look around we're going

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to see this huge mountain
that's 5 km or 3 miles high

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in the center of the crater
and its made up of these layers

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that were laid down
over millions of years

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of Martian history so as we
move away from our landing site

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and we drive towards
and ultimately

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up onto this mountain, we'll
be investigating hundreds

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of millions of years
of Martian history

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>> Pat: and investigating the
area between the landing site

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and the mountain
all along the way.

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah we you
know we're the science team is

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whenever we see something
interesting it's easy

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to get distracted so
you see something fun,

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you want to go fun
and different,

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you want to go see what it is
and one of the great things

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about exploring Mars or
exploring anywhere really is

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that it is exploration
and you find something new

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and unexpected every time
you go and that's really part

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of the fun and the
reward of doing this.

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>> Pat: Cause right now you
don't know what you don't know.

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>> Dr. Archer: Exactly.

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I mean you know everybody
comes up with good ideas

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of what you think you're going
to see when you get there

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but every single time
we've been surprised.

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>> Pat: You mentioned that
you were part of the SAM team;

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tell me about the components
of that instrument and what it

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in particular is going
to be looking for.

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah so Sam
is the main goal is to look

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for organic molecules but
we're also going to be looking

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for inorganic molecules that
could tell you something

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about which minerals
are there and both

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of those things really tell you
a lot about the habitability

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of the site and SAM at its heart
is a gas analysis instrument

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so the first thing that you have
to do is get a sample of gas

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to analyze and there's one
of two ways to do that.

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The first and the easiest is
just to open up the instruments

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of the atmosphere, take a
sniff, measure the composition

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of the Martian atmosphere
and see what's there.

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The second is MSL can deliver a
sample of rock or soil to SAM.

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SAM takes the sample
and can heat it up to

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about 1000 degrees Celsius
and as you're heating

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up the sample it's
giving off gas.

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Things like if there
are organics

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in the sample those
will start to come off

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and some minerals
also will break

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down both below a 1000 degrees
and so you can get a good idea

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of what's in the sample
so then you have that gas

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and SAM analyzes it using
one of three instruments

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within the instrument which
are the mass spectrometer,

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the gas chromatograph and the
tunable laser spectrometer

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and the mass spectrometer
tells you what molecules are

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in the gas, the gas
chromatograph can be used

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if you have a really complicated
organic signal it can help tease

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apart what's there so you
get a better understanding

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of what's in your sample.

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>> Pat: Tease apart
the molecules?

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>> Dr. Archer: The organics yeah

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so if you say you have a big
clump of organics that comes off

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at some temperature, the
gas chromatograph will help

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to separate those based on
the properties of the organics

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so you can get a better
idea so it kind of it kind

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of slows things down I guess
so you can get a better idea

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of what's there, a better
understanding of what's there

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and then the tunable laser
spectrometer is an instrument

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that's looking for three things.

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Carbon dioxide, water
and methane

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and it can very sensitively
measure the abundance

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of those three things and it
also measures the isotopes

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of those different molecules
and that's really important

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because for example
with water is

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if you measured the isotopic
ratio of water deuterium

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and hydrogen in the atmosphere

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that it can actually tell you
something about the history

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of water throughout on Mars,
throughout the history of Mars.

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>> Pat: Not just in
that location on Mars.

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah because
you're looking at the atmosphere

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and the atmosphere is you
know pretty well mixed,

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it can tell you something
about Mars as a whole

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over very long time periods.

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>> Pat: Help clarify
for those of us

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who did really poorly
in science.

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When you talk about organic
molecules are you talking

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about molecules from things that
are alive or once were alive?

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah so again MSL
isn't a life detection mission

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so it's not going to be
able to answer the question

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about whether these things
were ever alive or not,

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but organic molecules are
the chemical building blocks

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of life, they're things
like amino acids and sugars,

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things that are absolutely
necessary to life as we know it.

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However, there are also
non-biological processes

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that can produce these
organic molecules so just

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because you detect an organic
molecule that doesn't mean

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that there was necessarily
life so what MSL is going

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to do again is detecting these
organics we can say ah that's an

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habitable environment and
that's going to help us to know

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where to look for
life in the future.

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>> Pat: Habitable whether
or not it was habitated.

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>> Dr. Archer: Right
inhabited, yes, yes.

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>> Pat: Thank you very much.

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We often talk about
life as we know it.

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Is it possible that there
is life there but it is

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so different than what we know

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that we don't recognize
the evidence of it?

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>> Dr. Archer: Yeah so this
is something that comes

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up in the astrobiology community
all the time you know how do you

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look for something that you
don't know what you're looking

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for so the approach that we take
is say you know right now it's

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hard enough to detect life as
we know it let's start there

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but certainly it's possible that
Mars or life could surprise us

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and we're always open
to that possibility

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but we'll see what
Mars gives us.

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>> Pat: The notes indicate
that the SAM work some

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of the work that's being done
here in Houston has to do

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with volatile bearing minerals.

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Tell me what those
are what would

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that tell you if you found that?

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>> Dr. Archer: So a volatile
bearing mineral is something

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like a carbonate or a sulfate
or a phyllosilicate, or a clay

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and those are important
because they are minerals

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that are produced when other
rocks or minerals are broken

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down and they generally
imply the presence of water

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so carbonate, for example,

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will form when you have carbon
dioxide reacting with atoms

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of calcium or magnesium, for
example, from another rock

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and again it implies
the presence of water

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and it requires a certain water
chemistry so that's important

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because just by looking
at a rock if you measure

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if you detect a carbonate
you can say something

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about how much water was
there when it formed.

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What the chemistry of that water
might have been it tells you

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something about how
much CO2 might have been

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in the atmosphere, which
has important implications

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for climate, so you can
learn all of those things

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about the history of that rock,
or the history of the site just

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by looking at a rock
it's pretty incredible.

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>> Pat: And SAM has
the instruments

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that is able to do all of those.

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>> Dr. Archer: Yes in concert
with other instruments on MSL,

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it really is an integrated
science package

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or science payload that by
themselves the instruments are

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pretty incredible but together
you can tell a very complete

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story of the landing site.

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>> Pat: I mentioned earlier
that this mission is managed

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at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
are you going to be able to go

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out there for part of the
mission or do you do all

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of your work here in Houston?

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>> Dr. Archer: So for
the first 90 days a lot

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of the science team is going
to be co-located at JPL

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and I will be out there

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for about 4 weeks of
the first 90 days.

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After that, the science team
which goes home goes back

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to their home institutions,

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which is located throughout the
country and even internationally

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and so the rest of the mission
and the prime mission is

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for two years, we'll be done

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with the science
team being remote

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but those first 90 days a lot
of the science team will be

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out at JPL working on
Mars time together.

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>> Pat: What will you be
doing while you're there?

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>> Dr. Archer: We plan every day
we plan what the rover is going

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to do the next day so
you come in the morning

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and your shift starts
essentially right before you get

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data from the rover, everything
that it did the day before

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so you come in and you brush
up on ok what were we supposed

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to have done today and then the
rover said hey here's what I

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did, you look at all that data
and then you talk as a team

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and say ok what are we
going to do tomorrow

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and so you spend two shifts

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over about 16 hours building
a product that you're going

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to send to the space craft
that tells it what to do what

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to do tomorrow and then
you just you know repeat

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that for two years.

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>> Pat: Because of the distance
between the two planets,

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you've got quite a lag
in communications does

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that remove any flexibility
you have about what

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to tell your instruments
or your rover to do?

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>> Dr. Archer: Well that's right
because of the light time delay

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and the complexity

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of the instruments you don't
really have the flexibility

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to make changes in real time,
you plan things a day at a time

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but landing is a really
good example of that.

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So from the time that MSL
hits the top of the atmosphere

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to the time that it lands
safely on the surface

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of Mars is 7 minutes, now the
light time delay between earth

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and mars right now so the time
that it takes a signal traveling

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at the speed of light to go from
Mars to the earth is 14 minutes

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so what that means is when
we get our first indication

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that we've touched the top of
the atmosphere here on earth,

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in reality the space craft has
already been on the surface

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of Mars for 7 minutes so
really you're kind of looking

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at a tape delay of events,
you don't have the opportunity

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to respond to things in real
time and then again the way

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that that plays out during
operations is that we do most

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of our communications via the
orbiters around Mars right now,

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which only communicate with
the lander a few times a day

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so we have to uplink
a product once a day

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and we say here's what you're
going to do for every minute

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of this day coming up and
then it goes out and tries

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to do its best to
follow our instructions.

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If we did a good job
everything will go as planned

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and the next morning
when we come in we find

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out how we did and
we go from there.

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>> Pat: And found out
if there were any issues

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that it encountered while it
was trying to execute the plan

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>> Dr. Archer: Yes

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>> Pat: and then do something
about it the next day.

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>> Dr. Archer: That's right.

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>> Pat: Based on what you guys
all know already and the things

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that your team's investigating,
what are your hypotheses

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about the habitability of Mars?

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>> Dr. Archer: Well
you know I think based

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on what we know right now,
there's kind of some positives

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and negatives about
possible habitability of Mars

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that we have some missions that
for example we've seen a lot

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of evidence for water on
Mars either in the past

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or even continuing up
today from the water rise

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that the Phoenix
lander has found

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or the evidence the abundance
evidence of past water

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that the Mur rovers
have found and a lot

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of orbital measurements that
have indicated the past activity

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of water and possibly continuing
up to present day so that makes

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that encourages you about
the possibilities for life

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because water is very important,
it's absolutely necessary

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to life as we know it but then

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on the other hand the Viking
mission showed us the Viking

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actually did carry life
detection instruments with it

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and didn't find anything
so it shows us

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that the surface can also
be a pretty hostile place,

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it's a harsh UV environment,
you have ionizing radiation,

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chemical oxidants
that can destroy life

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so it can be a harsh place but
interestingly enough it's a lot

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of the things that
we've learned about life

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on earth have informed out
knowledge of the possibility

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for life on Mars and life on
earth is really ubiquitous,

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it's anywhere you go, it's
you know an extremely acidic

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or salty environments, deep
undersea, deep underground

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in solid rock and so
right now there's nothing

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about there's nothing about
what we know about life,

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which has proven itself to
be very adaptable and nothing

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that we know about
Mars that tells you

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that you can't have life there.

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You just have to know where to
look and that's the question

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that MSL is going to answer.

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>> Pat: It's all very
exciting, looking forward to it.

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Thanks very much Doug.

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Dr. Doug Archer is a member